suggestion Teamdammage
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suggestion Teamdammage
by boemerang » Wed Jan 19, 2011 20:53
Its just an suggestion to think over and i cenrtanly dont want to discriminate the lesser skilled amongst us (iam not that arrogant, that this means you all ;P)
but lately it seems to me that teambleeding is getting worse, this is becouse there is no penalty, so rifle nades pansers and mortars are just shooting and dont give a sh*t abouth teambleeding.
Maybe a solution is to lower the xp by the ammount of teamdammage given that will lower the teambleeding enormes i bet.
ofcourse there will be some medics now who say ehm and when i kill just for healing well if someone will count it out for me becouse i dont know exactly the numbers, but you dont need teambleeding for full heal under certain hp and above that hp its one bag more to give to fully heal and the time to give 3 bags is almost same as shoot heal and take your gun again....ofcourse the hiding factor behind revived will be less but i think a little handicap for medics is not a problem at all, and maybe someone knows a better solution for that.
the goal is a better solution then now for teambleeding given and recived.
iam curious abouth the opinions
greets and be carefull its gonna be a crazy year !!!
but lately it seems to me that teambleeding is getting worse, this is becouse there is no penalty, so rifle nades pansers and mortars are just shooting and dont give a sh*t abouth teambleeding.
Maybe a solution is to lower the xp by the ammount of teamdammage given that will lower the teambleeding enormes i bet.
ofcourse there will be some medics now who say ehm and when i kill just for healing well if someone will count it out for me becouse i dont know exactly the numbers, but you dont need teambleeding for full heal under certain hp and above that hp its one bag more to give to fully heal and the time to give 3 bags is almost same as shoot heal and take your gun again....ofcourse the hiding factor behind revived will be less but i think a little handicap for medics is not a problem at all, and maybe someone knows a better solution for that.
the goal is a better solution then now for teambleeding given and recived.
iam curious abouth the opinions
greets and be carefull its gonna be a crazy year !!!
t HERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG,
t HERE IS ONLY AN OPINION !
watch out 2011 is gonna be a crazy year
by Betinho » Wed Jan 19, 2011 21:07
there are not rules about a number of team damage, yes are a rule for tk or tb on purpose. Anyway a player with 3000 team damage or 10 tks are a high number, but you cant !warn, !kick or !ban a player only for this number, what you have to do? ask some member for spec this "x" player and when we see he is doing a lot of team damage without careful for his teammates, we will take some action for him.
by DMG_Kowi » Wed Jan 19, 2011 21:33
I think xp penalty is senseless, since it doesn't lower any skill and what is 3,10,100xp, while people have thousands of xp.
I think only automatic warns or kicks (but no bans) for certain amount of tk or td will give demanded result. peace.
Social teamkilling awareness isn't high, but changing this state is difficult, cause it demands changing the way people think and act during game
I think only automatic warns or kicks (but no bans) for certain amount of tk or td will give demanded result. peace.
Social teamkilling awareness isn't high, but changing this state is difficult, cause it demands changing the way people think and act during game
by egglaf » Wed Jan 19, 2011 22:23
Hey,
At first, I agree with Boemerang that there is a slight increase of TB in the last months, but I do not think that a automatic punishment in the form of direct xp decreasing is the right way to solve this.
A better way is maybe something similair to the automute. Like DMG_kogi has proposed: an auto-!pip or something like that. Which should be activated if a player do to much team damage in certain amount of time or an other condition. But the target of this should be to draw some attention to the admins and not to punish that specific player. A computer can not distinguish or an action was intentional or not, and for punishments like !kick there should be a human factor to decide or a kick is justified or not in my opinion.
Egglaf
At first, I agree with Boemerang that there is a slight increase of TB in the last months, but I do not think that a automatic punishment in the form of direct xp decreasing is the right way to solve this.
A better way is maybe something similair to the automute. Like DMG_kogi has proposed: an auto-!pip or something like that. Which should be activated if a player do to much team damage in certain amount of time or an other condition. But the target of this should be to draw some attention to the admins and not to punish that specific player. A computer can not distinguish or an action was intentional or not, and for punishments like !kick there should be a human factor to decide or a kick is justified or not in my opinion.
Egglaf
by wuju » Wed Jan 19, 2011 22:38
i think that most of your suggestions are not possible to do in NQ
i agree that TB makes ppl crazy but there is just one solution
of that problem, u have to call member/admin to spec such a person.
personaly i warn ppl who gain 3000td and if they dont stop i try to
explain that better way will be changing weapon.
about mortar TB i can say its quite random situation because u cant
see where your teamate is in the moment. u can just imagine scene
of fight to make it as safe as possible but when missle is in the ait,
u cant do anything so id say its not rly good example.
i agree that TB makes ppl crazy but there is just one solution
of that problem, u have to call member/admin to spec such a person.
personaly i warn ppl who gain 3000td and if they dont stop i try to
explain that better way will be changing weapon.
about mortar TB i can say its quite random situation because u cant
see where your teamate is in the moment. u can just imagine scene
of fight to make it as safe as possible but when missle is in the ait,
u cant do anything so id say its not rly good example.
by Vaakku » Wed Jan 19, 2011 22:48
Absolute values of team damage are of little use - unless of course they are in many thousands. The ratio of team damage dealt to damage dealt is a much better estimate regarding rule breaking - and even that is not very good. And certainly can't be used for automatic penalties, can it? Any automatic warns or some such are also pretty much moot because heavy weapons may reach the limits easily while light weapons hardly ever.
Should team damage directly penalise players, any user of heavy weapons and even rifle and normal 'nades will completely impair himself. Watching out and avoiding all but the tiniest amounts of td makes it simply not worth using any weapon of splash damage. And even if - let's say the panzer guy - is super careful and only shoots when team mates are not anywhere to be hit, it doesn't stop tk/td for the panzer is too slow and people will run into its way or explosion radius. Mortar, you can barely see where you are shooting at, is it worth risking the 100+ td for each shot? Mines, hell you can't control the td at all. The list goes on.
I'm not saying people shouldn't try to be more careful or that td wouldn't be an issue at all. I recognise the same slight increase in td but apart from dealing with the intentional ones manually and enlightening the rest, there is not much to do. The weapons are just too different for automatic penalties.
Edit: minor tweaking
Should team damage directly penalise players, any user of heavy weapons and even rifle and normal 'nades will completely impair himself. Watching out and avoiding all but the tiniest amounts of td makes it simply not worth using any weapon of splash damage. And even if - let's say the panzer guy - is super careful and only shoots when team mates are not anywhere to be hit, it doesn't stop tk/td for the panzer is too slow and people will run into its way or explosion radius. Mortar, you can barely see where you are shooting at, is it worth risking the 100+ td for each shot? Mines, hell you can't control the td at all. The list goes on.
I'm not saying people shouldn't try to be more careful or that td wouldn't be an issue at all. I recognise the same slight increase in td but apart from dealing with the intentional ones manually and enlightening the rest, there is not much to do. The weapons are just too different for automatic penalties.
Edit: minor tweaking
Quack!
by Smadje » Wed Jan 19, 2011 23:01
Vaakku wrote:Absolute values of team damage are of little use - unless of course they are in many thousands. The ratio of team damage dealt to damage dealt is a much better estimate regarding rule breaking - and even that is not very good. And certainly can't be used for automatic penalties, can it? Any automatic warns or some such are also pretty much moot because heavy weapons may reach the limits easily while light weapons hardly ever.
Should team damage directly penalise players, any user of heavy weapons and even rifle and normal 'nades will completely impair himself. Watching out and avoiding all but the tiniest amounts of td makes it simply not worth using any weapon of splash damage. And even if - let's say the panzer guy - is super careful and only shoots when team mates are not anywhere to be hit, it doesn't stop tk/td for the panzer is too slow and people will run into its way or explosion radius. Mortar, you can barely see where you are shooting at, is it worth risking the 100+ td for each shot? Mines, hell you can't control the td at all. The list goes on.
I'm not saying people shouldn't try to be more careful or that td wouldn't be an issue at all. I recognise the same slight increase in td but apart from dealing with the intentional ones manually and enlightening the rest, there is not much to do. The weapons are just too different for automatic penalties.
Edit: minor tweaking
Quack Quack!
Indeed I agree with what you said. In case off high team damage the reason usually is in the player his playing style. A punishment for teamdamage can in my opinion only be based on past records, once in a while a high TD means nothing. When a player got an overall reputation as TB'er, action can be taken. Take for example Thors Hammer, who was quoting his own words, 'liner' in getting the 'no friends award'.
As solution: Report TD/TK'ers to admins, so we can keep an eye on them and make decissions based on overall game behaviour from players.
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by DMG_Kowi » Thu Jan 20, 2011 0:17
I don't know how it is with implemantation of autowarns/kicks/bans and so on on nq, but it is true that computer cannot distinguish intentional td/tk from random td/tk. But look, even when some player do tk unintentionally, for exmaple he's newbie to ET, at some point this becomes so irritating.
by Death » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:41
Well imo, automated stuff won't work on PS1,
PS1 is server that is continually full during the day and has many 'adre medics" like me, who jump in front of everything trying to get most hs and kills, and PS1 also has a lot of HW users and Riflenade users.
Therefore i dont think automated warns etc will work. (also chance of being abused on purpose to get other player kicked, ive seen it happen before)
Now the reporting it to admins and members is of course a good idea but this is already happening so it's no solution at this point.
One thing i'd personally like to ask for then is a lowering of the number of rifle nades from 3 to 2.
It may not help a lot but you cant get rid of every teamdamage any way unless you disable it
Other thing might be a "spam" topic, where you can say which player has a too high teamdamage,
Bad side may be too much spamming for every time there's too high teamdamage and it would also be nice to have proof in form of a screenshot but then people wouldnt spam that much anymore because most people dont take the effort to make a screenshot and upload it.
PS1 is server that is continually full during the day and has many 'adre medics" like me, who jump in front of everything trying to get most hs and kills, and PS1 also has a lot of HW users and Riflenade users.
Therefore i dont think automated warns etc will work. (also chance of being abused on purpose to get other player kicked, ive seen it happen before)
Now the reporting it to admins and members is of course a good idea but this is already happening so it's no solution at this point.
One thing i'd personally like to ask for then is a lowering of the number of rifle nades from 3 to 2.
It may not help a lot but you cant get rid of every teamdamage any way unless you disable it
Other thing might be a "spam" topic, where you can say which player has a too high teamdamage,
Bad side may be too much spamming for every time there's too high teamdamage and it would also be nice to have proof in form of a screenshot but then people wouldnt spam that much anymore because most people dont take the effort to make a screenshot and upload it.
<icy> seems a guy i know from seeing gave it to me on the mens toilet
ehm
by boemerang » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:13
Iam happy to see that lots of ya react,
Then an other idee...why not lower the hp by the amount of teamdammage given, with one exception: mines.
This means medics still can kill and revive if theey want, it also means that if someone bleeds to hard it doesnt give him play time becouse he is also dead al the time, for example that irritating rude mortar, i have said it before dont understand it is stil available in et, its a rude no skill mapspot owning weapon wich irritates the opponent and always your team becouse you always make teamkills with that weapon, at least after one teamkill that mortar stops and gives room for people who wanna pass at least it makes them think shit i hit my teammate, instead of thats a pitty lets see how many teammates are that stupid to walk under my fire.
In my opinion there must be a penalty for teambleeding, i understand the game is not real life ;P but in reallife theey hang you after 2 kills in your own team.
Then an other idee...why not lower the hp by the amount of teamdammage given, with one exception: mines.
This means medics still can kill and revive if theey want, it also means that if someone bleeds to hard it doesnt give him play time becouse he is also dead al the time, for example that irritating rude mortar, i have said it before dont understand it is stil available in et, its a rude no skill mapspot owning weapon wich irritates the opponent and always your team becouse you always make teamkills with that weapon, at least after one teamkill that mortar stops and gives room for people who wanna pass at least it makes them think shit i hit my teammate, instead of thats a pitty lets see how many teammates are that stupid to walk under my fire.
In my opinion there must be a penalty for teambleeding, i understand the game is not real life ;P but in reallife theey hang you after 2 kills in your own team.
t HERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG,
t HERE IS ONLY AN OPINION !
watch out 2011 is gonna be a crazy year
- Zielobjekt
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- Location: Germany
by Zielobjekt » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:44
first of all live with it on such a crowded server that there is more teamdamage then normal.
sry but normaly you just get lots teamdamage because of stupid teammates or just nonsense rambos.
what i normaly saw is that its more about stupid teammates then not careing teammates.
any automatic punishment is ridiculous when you see how others act. teammates see the mortar hitting all the time 1 spot so why to walk there. teammates see you throw the support and see the smoke, also they see the smoke from arty so why they run there. teammates see you fighting and comes from behind to jump directly in your fireline in the hope they get the kill.
sry but normaly you just get lots teamdamage because of stupid teammates or just nonsense rambos.
what i normaly saw is that its more about stupid teammates then not careing teammates.
any automatic punishment is ridiculous when you see how others act. teammates see the mortar hitting all the time 1 spot so why to walk there. teammates see you throw the support and see the smoke, also they see the smoke from arty so why they run there. teammates see you fighting and comes from behind to jump directly in your fireline in the hope they get the kill.
Cry and you will cry alone, but laugh and the whole world will laugh with you!!!
by lazy-lion » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:48
@boemrang
First of all this is not like a fight in real life. xD
I see no solution for this problem, it's just how the people play and how carefull they're with TK and TB. Of course you can have TK from time to time. That's OK imo, but all players should "watch" their fire. Look, if a teammate is in a battle with an enemy and you are behind your teammate, you should wait till your teammate is dead and then begin with shooting, as a matter of fact... nobody does. xD
So, the one solution is: you should disable the power to TB, like if you shoot at a teammate nothing happens, but since that is not realistic anymore it probably won't be done.
That is all I wanted to say.
PS. Dont get mad if somebody TK or TB's you. Remember the golden rule: "It's just a game. xD"
First of all this is not like a fight in real life. xD
I see no solution for this problem, it's just how the people play and how carefull they're with TK and TB. Of course you can have TK from time to time. That's OK imo, but all players should "watch" their fire. Look, if a teammate is in a battle with an enemy and you are behind your teammate, you should wait till your teammate is dead and then begin with shooting, as a matter of fact... nobody does. xD
So, the one solution is: you should disable the power to TB, like if you shoot at a teammate nothing happens, but since that is not realistic anymore it probably won't be done.
That is all I wanted to say.
PS. Dont get mad if somebody TK or TB's you. Remember the golden rule: "It's just a game. xD"
"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win." - Gary Lineker
by DMG_Kowi » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:27
I think turning off friendly fire (team damage) is a bad idea. I've played on some servers without friendly fire and I noticed that standard of the game was rather low on these servers, cause people really didn't have to care about anything in group fights, just dumb shooting. Therefore, I conclude that playing with no friendly fire develops bad habits and generally lowers player's skill.
by lazy-lion » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01
DMG_Kowi wrote:I think turning off friendly fire (team damage) is a bad idea. I've played on some servers without friendly fire and I noticed that standard of the game was rather low on these servers, cause people really didn't have to care about anything in group fights, just dumb shooting. Therefore, I conclude that playing with no friendly fire develops bad habits and generally lowers player's skill.
Yes, I know it, but that's only solution and I think the most of us dont like it, so let just stay it as it is now and hope some players will be more carefull when they're shooting.
"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win." - Gary Lineker
by Smadje » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:57
In newer NQ mods there is an option to reduce friendly damage Anyhow, such solutions suck in my opinion, teamkills and teambleed are part off 20 vs 20 games. So be it.
Anyhow, such solutions suck in my opinion, teamkills and teambleed are part off 20 vs 20 games. So be it.quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by Oxyg3n » Thu Jan 20, 2011 14:15
+1 to Ziel.
I prefer our regulars/members/admins checking out the teamdamage themself then any server setting or third part script, I think that even if not perfect is the best solution you can have on a crowded server like this.
I prefer our regulars/members/admins checking out the teamdamage themself then any server setting or third part script, I think that even if not perfect is the best solution you can have on a crowded server like this.
by Oxyg3n » Thu Jan 20, 2011 15:13
Bong wrote:what about those Teamdamage-Reflection ?
the damage u given a teammate...reflect to urself...
take out mines...arty...some of these stuffs
mfg Bong
It has already been tried around a year ago, taken off after some days, there should be a topic in our archives aswell.
- ErsGuterJunge
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by ErsGuterJunge » Thu Jan 20, 2011 15:41
without TD 
TD is part of the game.
when you got mates that are shooting at you have a misfortune.
when you run in gunfire of your teammate that will be your fault and how we should get medpacks or ammopacks
by deep » Thu Jan 20, 2011 19:42
ErsGuterJunge wrote::loller: without TD
TD is part of the game.
If you put TD off then it's not part of the game.. lul.
I can't see the reason why friendly fire is not enabled here. You might think that it's part of the game as a tactic for some sort of balance. But if it's not much tolerated and ppl don't care about the realism (the game is really unrealistic in many other ways as well) then why not put it on and no more tk/tb
?
i know some very successful servers with FF on.
- FlowerPower
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by FlowerPower » Thu Jan 20, 2011 20:08
With FF off none will ever play as covert for going in disguise, as it is really easy to spot one (just fire to everyone who looks suspicious and the one who loose HP is an enemy in disguise).
If someone is doing to much TD just send a PM to admins and they will spec if this player is really careless and deserves a break
If someone is doing to much TD just send a PM to admins and they will spec if this player is really careless and deserves a break
by Smadje » Thu Jan 20, 2011 20:34
FlowerPower wrote:With FF off none will ever play as covert for going in disguise, as it is really easy to spot one (just fire to everyone who looks suspicious and the one who loose HP is an enemy in disguise).
I can see that in a blink haha.
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
- FlowerPower
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- Posts: 2605
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 0:00
- Location: Italy
by FlowerPower » Thu Jan 20, 2011 21:42
Smadje wrote:FlowerPower wrote:With FF off none will ever play as covert for going in disguise, as it is really easy to spot one (just fire to everyone who looks suspicious and the one who loose HP is an enemy in disguise).
I can see that in a blink haha.
ok, but not the majority of players can
(otherwise wouldn't be so funny playing as covert 
)
by vulcan » Fri Jan 21, 2011 21:35
at a server I've played a long time ago there was something, that when a person got teamkilled, he got the option to give a complaint to that person.
when it happens, you get a simmilar text as with a vote or joining a fireteam and it says 'do you want to file a complaint against (persons name)'
when you do yes, the teamkiller also gets a message with the text '(player) filed a complaint about you'
this might make some people more aware of there teamkilling.
i'm not sure, but i thought there was also a punishment when there are to many complaints filed about you.
sorry for bad english
~Sneaky
when it happens, you get a simmilar text as with a vote or joining a fireteam and it says 'do you want to file a complaint against (persons name)'
when you do yes, the teamkiller also gets a message with the text '(player) filed a complaint about you'
this might make some people more aware of there teamkilling.
i'm not sure, but i thought there was also a punishment when there are to many complaints filed about you.
sorry for bad english
~Sneaky
-Sneaky
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