Medics: -adrenaline + akimbo
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Medics: -adrenaline + akimbo
by Smadje » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:19
I know this topic is going to be a mess, and it is discussed already before. Still I want to renew the discussion, and see if I can convince people off my point.
At the moment the akimbo pistols for medics are disabled, in this way we try to weaken the power off the medics. Ofcourse this has effect, but I think we all know that the true power off medics is not in their weapon arsenal. The combination off 156 hp, healthpacks and a smg should be strong enought to win every 1 vs 1 fight, akimbo or single pistol doesn't really have influence. The akimbo can return to ps#1 imo. But for taking this measure, one other thing should be removed.
Everyone who plays NQ knows about adrenaline; this little injection wich leads to formula 1 speed during a long time. In the adrenaline needle really lies the true point off the PS#1 rambo medic. It will make their energybar empty and removes the ability to heal others with their med-packs. Therefor this 'weapon' should be disabled instead off the akimbo's.
Returning the akimbo's will have other positive points:
- Medics will play the game as it used to be: Save your speed for critical moments and use your medic packs.
- The common problem about players who avoid the server cfg and have akimbo will be avoided, this problem seems not to appear for adrenaline.
- All weapons can be dropped, it will make covert-ops a more valueable class.
Conclusion: Removing adrenaline, and adding akimbo for medics will improve the gameplay in PS#1.
At the moment the akimbo pistols for medics are disabled, in this way we try to weaken the power off the medics. Ofcourse this has effect, but I think we all know that the true power off medics is not in their weapon arsenal. The combination off 156 hp, healthpacks and a smg should be strong enought to win every 1 vs 1 fight, akimbo or single pistol doesn't really have influence. The akimbo can return to ps#1 imo. But for taking this measure, one other thing should be removed.
Everyone who plays NQ knows about adrenaline; this little injection wich leads to formula 1 speed during a long time. In the adrenaline needle really lies the true point off the PS#1 rambo medic. It will make their energybar empty and removes the ability to heal others with their med-packs. Therefor this 'weapon' should be disabled instead off the akimbo's.
Returning the akimbo's will have other positive points:
- Medics will play the game as it used to be: Save your speed for critical moments and use your medic packs.
- The common problem about players who avoid the server cfg and have akimbo will be avoided, this problem seems not to appear for adrenaline.
- All weapons can be dropped, it will make covert-ops a more valueable class.
Conclusion: Removing adrenaline, and adding akimbo for medics will improve the gameplay in PS#1.
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
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by Dre_of_chaos » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:42
im all for removing adre (only for medics) and bringing back akimbos, works better
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by Plastic_Jesus » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:57
Disabling adrenaline and not taking akimbos back to medic would be the best choice. And adding infinite sygrines for medic. That would be heaven for me.
But for real I don't like the idea bringing akimbos back and removing adrenaline. I don't want those rambo medics back!!!
-*S
But for real I don't like the idea bringing akimbos back and removing adrenaline. I don't want those rambo medics back!!!
-*S
S.S.Atrocity wrote:Im pretty sure Saukko will have pages worth of bugs found before anyone knows about the release...lol
by Smadje » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:04
Saukko wrote:But for real I don't like the idea bringing akimbos back and removing adrenaline. I don't want those rambo medics back!!!
Your overestimate the power off akimbo's. This weapon is totally not strong. With single pistol you are far more accurate..
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by Vaakku » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:49
Yay, class balance!
As you stated, medic is clearly the most powerful class even with the current settings. Personally I am all for improving the class as the team supporter and the best way to do this is to reduce the deadliness and ramboness many have come to associate with medics. Thereby I'd gladly embrace the removal of adrenaline, which is of limited use in any case.
However reintroducing akimbo pistols would go a greater length to undo any drawback the lack of adrenaline would cause. After all it isn't that rare for a fight (especially 1 vs 1) to proceed to pistols or reloading. Nowadays many medics choose reloading and it is then the other classes have the opportunity to chew off the medic's health advantage should they choose to swap weapons. I fear such would not be the case if both participants were similarly armed.
And you might be underestimating their value. Being accurate means you have to aim each shot, while akimbo pistols allow constant and extended firepower in comparison - without the unnecessary need of aiming.
As you stated, medic is clearly the most powerful class even with the current settings. Personally I am all for improving the class as the team supporter and the best way to do this is to reduce the deadliness and ramboness many have come to associate with medics. Thereby I'd gladly embrace the removal of adrenaline, which is of limited use in any case.
However reintroducing akimbo pistols would go a greater length to undo any drawback the lack of adrenaline would cause. After all it isn't that rare for a fight (especially 1 vs 1) to proceed to pistols or reloading. Nowadays many medics choose reloading and it is then the other classes have the opportunity to chew off the medic's health advantage should they choose to swap weapons. I fear such would not be the case if both participants were similarly armed.
Smadje wrote:Saukko wrote:But for real I don't like the idea bringing akimbos back and removing adrenaline. I don't want those rambo medics back!!!
Your overestimate the power off akimbo's. This weapon is totally not strong. With single pistol you are far more accurate..
And you might be underestimating their value. Being accurate means you have to aim each shot, while akimbo pistols allow constant and extended firepower in comparison - without the unnecessary need of aiming.
Quack!
by Diclonius » Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:07
Akimbo itself does not make a difference. The medics who are truly able to abuse adrenaline with strafejumps etc. are skilled enough to play better with a single pistol than with akimbos in my opinion. However, where I used to play we went through the same discussion and had those stages:
1. Medic without automatic HP regeneration. Medics can heal themselves only with medpacks. -- This one was pretty much okay, the medic was weakened but he didn't feel butchered, still it cut down on his abilities to heal.
2. Adrenaline is for speed only and does not halve the damage you take. -- This one wasn't as successful in my opinion. People were happy but it was still abusable, since Adrenaline had its own charge bar. Hence you could inject and then take medpacks out, negating the effect.
Now my suggestion would be
3. Adrenaline doubles your speed, but also doubles / *1,5 the damage you take. Hence you can rush to heal a dead engi/teammate, therefore sacrificing your life, but this is exactly what adrenaline was about in the first place. Rushes like on Baserace would be easy to cut down since it wouldn't take many shots to kill a medic.
OR
4. Cut down on a medic's ammunition. Do it ETPro-Scrim style and give him only one clip. This way, a medic will have to stick around field ops and will be easier to kill. However, I think this may create some problems, for example medics running around spamming I NEED AMMO! or something like that.
1. Medic without automatic HP regeneration. Medics can heal themselves only with medpacks. -- This one was pretty much okay, the medic was weakened but he didn't feel butchered, still it cut down on his abilities to heal.
2. Adrenaline is for speed only and does not halve the damage you take. -- This one wasn't as successful in my opinion. People were happy but it was still abusable, since Adrenaline had its own charge bar. Hence you could inject and then take medpacks out, negating the effect.
Now my suggestion would be
3. Adrenaline doubles your speed, but also doubles / *1,5 the damage you take. Hence you can rush to heal a dead engi/teammate, therefore sacrificing your life, but this is exactly what adrenaline was about in the first place. Rushes like on Baserace would be easy to cut down since it wouldn't take many shots to kill a medic.
OR
4. Cut down on a medic's ammunition. Do it ETPro-Scrim style and give him only one clip. This way, a medic will have to stick around field ops and will be easier to kill. However, I think this may create some problems, for example medics running around spamming I NEED AMMO! or something like that.
by -Gighen- » Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:12
imo adre must remain.. it do the game faster, i prefer it.. withuot adre it will be more and more slow :S
and i'm contrary off the return of the akimbo.. in ETPro you have always a singol pistol.. so i prefer to have only a pistol with the medic, so I can do a bit of trainign with accuracy pistol
-Gighen-
and i'm contrary off the return of the akimbo.. in ETPro you have always a singol pistol.. so i prefer to have only a pistol with the medic, so I can do a bit of trainign with accuracy pistol
-Gighen-
by Diclonius » Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:13
-Gighen- wrote:imo adre must remain.. it do the game faster, i prefer it.. withuot adre it will be more and more slow :S
and i'm contrary off the return of the akimbo.. in ETPro you have always a singol pistol.. so i prefer to have only a pistol with the medic, so I can do a bit of trainign with accuracy pistol
-Gighen-
The game can be just as fast without adrenaline. If you hang out a bit more on Trickjump-Servers and learn the basics of strafejumping, you'll be faster than 95% of the people who use adrenaline while you don't, and when you add adrenaline to that, you're faster than any rocket that NASA can launch. I think that's the core of the discussion here.
by deep » Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:34
-Gighen- wrote:imo adre must remain.. it do the game faster, i prefer it.. withuot adre it will be more and more slow :S
and i'm contrary off the return of the akimbo.. in ETPro you have always a singol pistol.. so i prefer to have only a pistol with the medic, so I can do a bit of trainign with accuracy pistol
-Gighen-
in limbo menu u have the possibility to choose akimbo or single pistol.
but anyway i doubt ur idea smad will go through. past has shown that...
by eLemenT » Wed Aug 11, 2010 13:52
I don't play regulary PS1.
But if i would.. and would see my lovely medic with all his features is away.. even if it would be only HP generation.. i would simply leave the Server. Without jokes.
As i like Fragging.
And i don't really play for OBJ in Pub Servers.
Only in ETPro ones.
Ofc if i play medic.. i do my job - reviving. (My job isn't to construct a gate or so)
For example if i see some dude crying for med and he lays next to me i would revive him instead of jumping away.
At laaaast (:p) i wanna say that it is true that Medic with Akimbos isn't really the factor why they are rambo.
It is just the ability to heal and the HP self generation + Adre.
But adre isn't the Main thing which makes em Rambo. It is just an addition which makes em more deadly.
For example if a medic couldn't heal himself + has no hp generation, he wouldn't rush around, even with adre.
And if they wouldn't have adre, but all other features. They would be still able to 'rambo'.
At final it is only the player itself which makes a medic rambo or not. If the Medic stick to the engy and play as a team, the medic power is a part which takes the team to lead.
It is not my invention, or sth i want to tell that medic stays that powerfull (even if i want) it's true. Maybe some ETPro players can confirm it.
If you wanna take away medic power still, theres a good option. (dunno if it's for nq 1.2.9 only)
- Medic can't heal himself with medpacks, but can get the hp if some teammates takes up his medpacks.
- removing adrenaline
- removing hp generation.
- Medic HP reduced to 140 max.
-> NO 'rambo' meds.
But as stated, i wouldn't play than as i love medic with all his features.
But don't push everything to Medics, that certain OBJ can't be made - f.e PS1 Goldrush (part where to take Gold and steal the truck.)
Mostly engis won't move either.
(f.e take rifle for fragging.. but about that none is talking, about 'rambo' engis with rifle who wont do OBJ and if two do the same and you got 3 engis in a 40 players server you will loose also..)
+ Server settings.
+ too much players..
etc.
But if i would.. and would see my lovely medic with all his features is away.. even if it would be only HP generation.. i would simply leave the Server. Without jokes.
As i like Fragging.
And i don't really play for OBJ in Pub Servers.
Only in ETPro ones.
Ofc if i play medic.. i do my job - reviving. (My job isn't to construct a gate or so)
For example if i see some dude crying for med and he lays next to me i would revive him instead of jumping away.
At laaaast (:p) i wanna say that it is true that Medic with Akimbos isn't really the factor why they are rambo.
It is just the ability to heal and the HP self generation + Adre.
But adre isn't the Main thing which makes em Rambo. It is just an addition which makes em more deadly.
For example if a medic couldn't heal himself + has no hp generation, he wouldn't rush around, even with adre.
And if they wouldn't have adre, but all other features. They would be still able to 'rambo'.
At final it is only the player itself which makes a medic rambo or not. If the Medic stick to the engy and play as a team, the medic power is a part which takes the team to lead.
It is not my invention, or sth i want to tell that medic stays that powerfull (even if i want) it's true. Maybe some ETPro players can confirm it.
If you wanna take away medic power still, theres a good option. (dunno if it's for nq 1.2.9 only)
- Medic can't heal himself with medpacks, but can get the hp if some teammates takes up his medpacks.
- removing adrenaline
- removing hp generation.
- Medic HP reduced to 140 max.
-> NO 'rambo' meds.
But as stated, i wouldn't play than as i love medic with all his features.
But don't push everything to Medics, that certain OBJ can't be made - f.e PS1 Goldrush (part where to take Gold and steal the truck.)
Mostly engis won't move either.
(f.e take rifle for fragging.. but about that none is talking, about 'rambo' engis with rifle who wont do OBJ and if two do the same and you got 3 engis in a 40 players server you will loose also..)
+ Server settings.
+ too much players..
etc.
by Smadje » Wed Aug 11, 2010 14:09
Saevio wrote:The game can be just as fast without adrenaline. If you hang out a bit more on Trickjump-Servers and learn the basics of strafejumping, you'll be faster than 95% of the people who use adrenaline while you don't, and when you add adrenaline to that, you're faster than any rocket that NASA can launch. I think that's the core of the discussion here.
Indeed that is exactly my idea
I can live with reducing adrenaline to 1 for getting back in the battlefield. Besides that there is just NO point to keep adrenaline. Let medic be the strongest class, but not because off adrenaline.
-Gighen- wrote:imo adre must remain.. it do the game faster, i prefer it.. withuot adre it will be more and more slow :S
Adre makes you slow in some way, you don't learn to balance your sprint usage. It is actually one big syringe full with beginner essence.
-Gighen- wrote: And i'm contrary off the return of the akimbo.. in ETPro you have always a singol pistol.. so i prefer to have only a pistol with the medic, so I can do a bit of trainign with accuracy pistol
Check my cfg in techzone there you find class selector for single pistols, now you can practice with any class
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by sjonge » Wed Aug 11, 2010 15:09
Check my cfg in techzone there you find class selector for single pistols, now you can practice with any class
I'm getting annoyed selecting single pistol all the time in limbo. Can you please post a link to your cfg so I can copy the single pistol lines?
by GokuSan » Wed Aug 11, 2010 15:32
sjonge wrote:Check my cfg in techzone there you find class selector for single pistols, now you can practice with any class
I'm getting annoyed selecting single pistol all the time in limbo. Can you please post a link to your cfg so I can copy the single pistol lines?
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.p ... ic&t=10027
On topic:
I don't mind, as long as adre stays. Maybe set it as we can only have 1needle max/respawn.
by Betinho » Wed Aug 11, 2010 17:12
all is fine in ps1...adrenaline is a part of noquarter, if ps1 is still using 1.2.3 the settings are corrects.
if some day ps1 change to noquarter 1.2.7 or 1.2.9 maybe adrenaline off can be good, because adrenaline and health bar full together, thats is wrong and this medic have a lot of power, play with velocity, he can run and heal
if some day ps1 change to noquarter 1.2.7 or 1.2.9 maybe adrenaline off can be good, because adrenaline and health bar full together, thats is wrong and this medic have a lot of power, play with velocity, he can run and heal
by Smadje » Wed Aug 11, 2010 17:36
Betinho wrote:all is fine in ps1...adrenaline is a part of noquarter, if ps1 is still using 1.2.3 the settings are corrects.
Since you can disable it is no part of noquarter. In PS#2 there is no adrenaline, and noquarter aswell. When something has negatieve influence on the game/gameplay it should be fixed, doesn't matter is part of noquarter.
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by Ajit » Wed Aug 11, 2010 18:11
Smadje wrote:Betinho wrote:all is fine in ps1...adrenaline is a part of noquarter, if ps1 is still using 1.2.3 the settings are corrects.
Since you can disable it is no part of noquarter. In PS#2 there is no adrenaline, and noquarter aswell. When something has negatieve influence on the game/gameplay it should be fixed, doesn't matter is part of noquarter.
in default settings adre is disabled in any modes, including NQ
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by Plastic_Jesus » Wed Aug 11, 2010 20:37
eLemenT wrote:- Medic can't heal himself with medpacks, but can get the hp if some teammates takes up his medpacks.
- removing adrenaline
- removing hp generation.
- Medic HP reduced to 140 max.
-> NO 'rambo' meds.
This really made my day. This is how it should be! I'm really getting tired to this game because there are so many medics who doesn't heal and it makes me really mad. And it's all about that they are rambos. No more RAMBOS!!!
-*S
S.S.Atrocity wrote:Im pretty sure Saukko will have pages worth of bugs found before anyone knows about the release...lol
by Spaceman » Wed Aug 11, 2010 20:42
Too much text to read and boring too, if you remove adren then people/regulars might leave ...(including me)
Settings are fine imho
And i'm of(f) topic eh?
What's the point of(f) saying you don't like use of adre of(f) PS1 if you don't like it off
Eat my shorts ofF
Smadje shame on you: of(f) topic
Settings are fine imho
And i'm of(f) topic eh?
What's the point of(f) saying you don't like use of adre of(f) PS1 if you don't like it off
Eat my shorts ofF
Smadje shame on you: of(f) topic
by deep » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:18
well ps1 has left me an impression as a server, that it cares mostly about having much players and keeping the newbs traffic high. u can see that by just looking at the mod version. 
. so it's kind a useless to discuss these settings for this server, where only minority might support it. even if it's a great idea, it wont work here.
. so it's kind a useless to discuss these settings for this server, where only minority might support it. even if it's a great idea, it wont work here.
by Smadje » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:08
Diamond wrote:well ps1 has left me an impression as a server, that it cares mostly about having much players and keeping the newbs traffic high. u can see that by just looking at the mod version.
Servers like DA#1 and FG#2 have also similar changes like I suggested. I guess the majority will get used to the settings after some time. I don't see why we can't give it a chance for a short period.
quoting deep:
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
henksmadje please read topic more carefully and other topics too where u reply, then u get the point and dont have to make stupid posts.
by Lurtz » Thu Aug 12, 2010 15:14
Saukko wrote:eLemenT wrote:- Medic can't heal himself with medpacks, but can get the hp if some teammates takes up his medpacks.
- removing adrenaline
- removing hp generation.
- Medic HP reduced to 140 max.
-> NO 'rambo' meds.
This really made my day. This is how it should be! I'm really getting tired to this game because [b]there are so many medics who doesn't heal and it makes me really mad. And it's all about that they are rambos.[b/] No more RAMBOS!!!
-*S
This wont change anything
at least not in my eyes. I wont revive if I dont want.Cant understand people that whine "omg, what are you doing, revive nub"
There is no rule such as - If you are a medic you must revive others.
Medic can't heal himself with medpacks, but can get the hp if some teammates takes up his medpacks.
The most stupid thing I ever read, plus I found somewhere that as engineer I cant pick up weapons of different classes (e.g. sten) also stupid.
by Diclonius » Thu Aug 12, 2010 16:20
Lurtz,
I shall explain this to you in detail.
YOU:
And quite frankly, you quickly realize what just killed that teammate.
Would you have healed him, then you could have used him as a human shield, therefore repelling any damage done. Here's an example!
yes, I was bored
I shall explain this to you in detail.
YOU:
And quite frankly, you quickly realize what just killed that teammate.
Would you have healed him, then you could have used him as a human shield, therefore repelling any damage done. Here's an example!
yes, I was bored
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