what a shame, cannot play on prime squadron cause of tags
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what a shame, cannot play on prime squadron cause of tags
by Mtdman » Sat Feb 16, 2008 17:51
I came to prime squadron #6 about 3 months ago. I found a server I really liked with lots of great players and cool admins. I invited several of my friends to play here with me(judge, lols, nc-pasglop,nc-daddy, nc-jordan,nc-gabrys,nc-fefe, pawlik). I and several of my friends where a tag, NC, which stands for nochains-ie. a nonclan; a group of friends who used to belong to a clan and who left the clan and wanted a new identity which signaled our solidarity-we have been playing together for 4 years now.
Up until today I and my friends felt welcome on this server-but this has now changed. PS-random decided today that the NC tag threatens the prime squadron server because of the existence of some group of hackers who call themselves netcoders and who also use nc in their tags. PS-random gave me and my friends an ultimatum-either change our names or have our charachters renamed. I informed him that I and my friends have no intention of changing our tags and that if he renamed us we would no longer be playing on the prime squadron servers.
I cannot really express how disappointed I am-I am not angry per se, for the absurdity of this situation prevents me from getting angry-I dont waste negative energy on utter nonsense. But at the sametime I am not willing to change the name of the group of friends I belong to in order to appease a high admin on the prime squadron server who has managed to get himself so worked up about some imaginary threat to the reputation of prime squadron.
I really hope that some other admins here can chime in and put an end to this absurdity-i really enjoyed playing here and now I and my friends are ostracized-sure one could say "oh just change your tags", or "it's just a name" but the paranoia about the reputation of probably the largest collective of et servers in europe being threated because me an my group of friends happen to have the same two letters in our tags that a group of hackers have is just too absurd-and this tag signals solidarity between me and my friends. Asking us to remove our tags means forbidding us to show our solidarity and this is an affront to me and my friends.
Additionally the netocoders group was officially put out of business over 1 year ago- their website was taken offline and they no longer exist according to http://www.giga.de/features/storyarchiv/00135736_der_fall_netcoders_mit_den/
If what is stated on this webpage is true-PS-randoms worries seem even more unfounded and more absurd. According to PS-random he was concerned about this issue because a couple of people had pm'ed him asking if ps was a cheatserver. That me and my friends are ostracized from this server due to a couple of anonymous pm's is really, really bad style and speaks negatively to any sense of fairness and judgement.
Please, I beseech you, rethink this issue and put an end to this absurdity
NC-mtdman
Up until today I and my friends felt welcome on this server-but this has now changed. PS-random decided today that the NC tag threatens the prime squadron server because of the existence of some group of hackers who call themselves netcoders and who also use nc in their tags. PS-random gave me and my friends an ultimatum-either change our names or have our charachters renamed. I informed him that I and my friends have no intention of changing our tags and that if he renamed us we would no longer be playing on the prime squadron servers.
I cannot really express how disappointed I am-I am not angry per se, for the absurdity of this situation prevents me from getting angry-I dont waste negative energy on utter nonsense. But at the sametime I am not willing to change the name of the group of friends I belong to in order to appease a high admin on the prime squadron server who has managed to get himself so worked up about some imaginary threat to the reputation of prime squadron.
I really hope that some other admins here can chime in and put an end to this absurdity-i really enjoyed playing here and now I and my friends are ostracized-sure one could say "oh just change your tags", or "it's just a name" but the paranoia about the reputation of probably the largest collective of et servers in europe being threated because me an my group of friends happen to have the same two letters in our tags that a group of hackers have is just too absurd-and this tag signals solidarity between me and my friends. Asking us to remove our tags means forbidding us to show our solidarity and this is an affront to me and my friends.
Additionally the netocoders group was officially put out of business over 1 year ago- their website was taken offline and they no longer exist according to http://www.giga.de/features/storyarchiv/00135736_der_fall_netcoders_mit_den/
If what is stated on this webpage is true-PS-randoms worries seem even more unfounded and more absurd. According to PS-random he was concerned about this issue because a couple of people had pm'ed him asking if ps was a cheatserver. That me and my friends are ostracized from this server due to a couple of anonymous pm's is really, really bad style and speaks negatively to any sense of fairness and judgement.
Please, I beseech you, rethink this issue and put an end to this absurdity
NC-mtdman
by Ammz » Sat Feb 16, 2008 17:59
If it is true that the Netcoders no longer exist, then we should allow the NC tag no doubt about that.
I agree with you Mtdman, but if the Netcoders did/do exist then we wouldn't have allowed you to play with NC tags.
1. It prevents NC players to join prime-squadron. (I know they can just change name, but I wouldn't)
2. People who know or have known the NC clan may claim that you and your group of friends are cheaters and we wouldn't know eiter!
That's why I hope you understand our point of view. It isn't just the NC tag which is forbidden.
I agree with you Mtdman, but if the Netcoders did/do exist then we wouldn't have allowed you to play with NC tags.
1. It prevents NC players to join prime-squadron. (I know they can just change name, but I wouldn't)
2. People who know or have known the NC clan may claim that you and your group of friends are cheaters and we wouldn't know eiter!
That's why I hope you understand our point of view. It isn't just the NC tag which is forbidden.
You say: "Great Shot!"
I say: "aimbot"
-|PS|-Ammz
I say: "aimbot"
-|PS|-Ammz
- warren-the-ape
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by warren-the-ape » Sat Feb 16, 2008 18:07
1st of we don't have a member called; -|PS|- Random, so im not sure who this person really is.
2nd, PS Administration does not know anything about this incident or even discussed the use of your Tags at our servers. So I can only conclude that this was a single man decision.
Unlike that articly might say, netcoders is still pretty alive and kicking (unfortunately), however there Tag layout is slightly different from yours (no caps f.e.). I can understand the confusion but i dont support this decision.
Would the real -|PS|- Random please stand up?!?
2nd, PS Administration does not know anything about this incident or even discussed the use of your Tags at our servers. So I can only conclude that this was a single man decision.
Unlike that articly might say, netcoders is still pretty alive and kicking (unfortunately), however there Tag layout is slightly different from yours (no caps f.e.). I can understand the confusion but i dont support this decision.
Would the real -|PS|- Random please stand up?!?
"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend." 
by icefrost » Sat Feb 16, 2008 18:08
Admin Edit:
*Snap*
No need for free advertisement
-|PS|-!ce&frost aka -|PS|-random
edit: ehh didn't even link the site but okay.. don't feel to write much by myself, i made this decision and i remember we always acted like that in the past as well with all those forbiggen tags, even if it looks similar or isn't the same. anyway i stay at my point of view, comments welcome.
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death.
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
- warren-the-ape
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- Posts: 6378
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 0:00
- Location: Netherlands
by warren-the-ape » Sat Feb 16, 2008 18:19
Ehm ja really dont see the need of that quote, so its removed.
"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend."
- warren-the-ape
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- Posts: 6378
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 0:00
- Location: Netherlands
by warren-the-ape » Sat Feb 16, 2008 18:35
A simple, 'no they're not dead' would be sufficient enough imo 
but this is getting offtopic.
I dont understand why you didnt brought this up in AF or MF? They are playing there for quite some time and didnt hear/see any complaints until now.
but this is getting offtopic.
I dont understand why you didnt brought this up in AF or MF? They are playing there for quite some time and didnt hear/see any complaints until now.
"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend."
by icefrost » Sat Feb 16, 2008 18:38
okay okay, they are alive :>
feel free to move this into AF if u want to discuss it, but for myself its a pretty clear case, i didn't ban anyone too, i suggested to rename and explained my kind of view which isn't taken that far away.. after some minutes mtdman said that nobody will rename for sure, so i just renamed and he feeled to leave, since he can't wear his NC tag on our servers. his decision.
edit: just some random quotes (i know his NC tag is different, but still, it brings a bad light to PS imo).
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1044&highlight=forbidden+tags
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1679&highlight=forbidden+tags
feel free to move this into AF if u want to discuss it, but for myself its a pretty clear case, i didn't ban anyone too, i suggested to rename and explained my kind of view which isn't taken that far away.. after some minutes mtdman said that nobody will rename for sure, so i just renamed and he feeled to leave, since he can't wear his NC tag on our servers. his decision.
edit: just some random quotes (i know his NC tag is different, but still, it brings a bad light to PS imo).
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1044&highlight=forbidden+tags
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1679&highlight=forbidden+tags
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death.
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
by Mtdman » Sat Feb 16, 2008 19:44
icefrost I did not recognize you as PS-random, sorry about that. I also did not do extensive research into netcoders-I typed netcoders into google and posted the first link I found after having read the article.
Most of my friends who wear the NC tag are french, this is why they have not posted to this forum-I speak for about 6 people who have frequently played on this server in the past 3 months.
According to your own admission netcoders do not wear tags identical to ours. Moreover even though there is some similarity in the tag names I cannot understand why this percieved threat-not an actual threat for this server is almost continuously full-suffices for you to choose to make us unwelcome on prime-squadron server. I have been an admin of multiple servers for 3 years now, I also have installed, maintained and administered servers for the past 18 months. My experience as an admin does not enable me to agree with either your concerns or your decision. In my 4 years of playing et I have only ever felt the need to forcibly rename/kick/ban players who used neo-nazi names.
I do understand your desire to not be associated with a cheat server-but be realistic- their never has been a massive community of et servers(6?) with many, many hundreds of players every day run by hackers. Such simply does not exist. I doubt that there are 10 et communities of even the same size as prime-squadron-the reputation of this community will not be diminished because me and some of my friends where tags which contain the letters N and C. You have suprisingly little faith in your own community and apparently place more value on percieved threats than you do on good players who contribute positively to the reputation of this server by frequently playing on it and who attempt to help enforce the rules of the server-as opposed to the myriad of players who systematically engage in rule breaking. If I am not mistaken it was you who promoted me to level 2 on the server. You can perhaps imagine how disconcerting and discouraging it is to come to a server, be welcomed, and promoted only 3 months later to be told that your tags are ruining the reputation of the server.
Moreover NoChains has its own server and its own community-we have come to this server because the reputation and size of PS has made it incredibly difficult for small servers to draw sufficient players-we enjoy playing with lots of players-et is no fun when you can only get 12 players for 2 hours once every 2 or 3 days. With the numbers of players on this server only 2-3 NoChains members is not any kind of threat.
What you are asking of us is to disown our own identity and the solidarity which it expresses. I would suspect that you have some clue as to what I am talking about-after all you proudly wear your PS tag. Further I would expect some sympathy from you-PS is not a clan(at least what I have understood) but is a community of players who enjoy playing with each other-just like NoChains. I appreciate that you did not kick/ban us from the server-but demanding that we remove our tags makes us unwelcome. Please let us be welcome on the PS servers, we enjoy playing here.
Most of my friends who wear the NC tag are french, this is why they have not posted to this forum-I speak for about 6 people who have frequently played on this server in the past 3 months.
According to your own admission netcoders do not wear tags identical to ours. Moreover even though there is some similarity in the tag names I cannot understand why this percieved threat-not an actual threat for this server is almost continuously full-suffices for you to choose to make us unwelcome on prime-squadron server. I have been an admin of multiple servers for 3 years now, I also have installed, maintained and administered servers for the past 18 months. My experience as an admin does not enable me to agree with either your concerns or your decision. In my 4 years of playing et I have only ever felt the need to forcibly rename/kick/ban players who used neo-nazi names.
I do understand your desire to not be associated with a cheat server-but be realistic- their never has been a massive community of et servers(6?) with many, many hundreds of players every day run by hackers. Such simply does not exist. I doubt that there are 10 et communities of even the same size as prime-squadron-the reputation of this community will not be diminished because me and some of my friends where tags which contain the letters N and C. You have suprisingly little faith in your own community and apparently place more value on percieved threats than you do on good players who contribute positively to the reputation of this server by frequently playing on it and who attempt to help enforce the rules of the server-as opposed to the myriad of players who systematically engage in rule breaking. If I am not mistaken it was you who promoted me to level 2 on the server. You can perhaps imagine how disconcerting and discouraging it is to come to a server, be welcomed, and promoted only 3 months later to be told that your tags are ruining the reputation of the server.
Moreover NoChains has its own server and its own community-we have come to this server because the reputation and size of PS has made it incredibly difficult for small servers to draw sufficient players-we enjoy playing with lots of players-et is no fun when you can only get 12 players for 2 hours once every 2 or 3 days. With the numbers of players on this server only 2-3 NoChains members is not any kind of threat.
What you are asking of us is to disown our own identity and the solidarity which it expresses. I would suspect that you have some clue as to what I am talking about-after all you proudly wear your PS tag. Further I would expect some sympathy from you-PS is not a clan(at least what I have understood) but is a community of players who enjoy playing with each other-just like NoChains. I appreciate that you did not kick/ban us from the server-but demanding that we remove our tags makes us unwelcome. Please let us be welcome on the PS servers, we enjoy playing here.
by icefrost » Sat Feb 16, 2008 20:08
thats no problem, u couldn't know it's me since i just wear this name since today. i know u and ur NC friends always play with the rules and u are nice guys, no doubt about that.
when i saw u the first time on our server i already thought about telling u my fears about this but i just leaved it cuz u rly are a enrichment for ps #6 itself. but today, some new player (sry i got no screen and i also don't remember him by name) asked me, why we allow it to let chearers play nowadays on our servers. first i didn't pay much attention to it, since many ppl cry about cheaters if they get killed by some better ppl. but then i could figure out he is talking about u and ur friends and the tag related to the well known cheaterclan netcorders. i also can understand that u guys are proud of ur tag and like to play together and have some fun. but since this happend i couldn't resist and had to make a decision. my decision was maybe too fast and a 1-man-one but i didn't saw any reason to make a big deal about it, since i just talked to u and didn't even thought about kicking / banning anyone.
i'm not scared that a lot of cheaters will join because they see ur tags, moreover i'm scared about ppl will just have a bad picture from ps. its right i had this doubts before as well but i didn't pay much attention to it cuz all runned well and there was not any complain. thats also why i supported u and gave u lvl 2 some weeks ago. but this PM from a random new player just started to let grow my fears again. thats why i tryed to have a talk with u guys and to ask if u may could rename. u guys won't cuz u are proud of it. i can understand this but u also have to see my fears i got.
its not a personally case, its just about the tag. i rly like u guys and it would be bad if u decide to play somewhere else. u are always welcome on our servers but imo without NC tag. anyway, guess we will talk with all HA about it and bring out a final decision.
so long
!cy
when i saw u the first time on our server i already thought about telling u my fears about this but i just leaved it cuz u rly are a enrichment for ps #6 itself. but today, some new player (sry i got no screen and i also don't remember him by name) asked me, why we allow it to let chearers play nowadays on our servers. first i didn't pay much attention to it, since many ppl cry about cheaters if they get killed by some better ppl. but then i could figure out he is talking about u and ur friends and the tag related to the well known cheaterclan netcorders. i also can understand that u guys are proud of ur tag and like to play together and have some fun. but since this happend i couldn't resist and had to make a decision. my decision was maybe too fast and a 1-man-one but i didn't saw any reason to make a big deal about it, since i just talked to u and didn't even thought about kicking / banning anyone.
i'm not scared that a lot of cheaters will join because they see ur tags, moreover i'm scared about ppl will just have a bad picture from ps. its right i had this doubts before as well but i didn't pay much attention to it cuz all runned well and there was not any complain. thats also why i supported u and gave u lvl 2 some weeks ago. but this PM from a random new player just started to let grow my fears again. thats why i tryed to have a talk with u guys and to ask if u may could rename. u guys won't cuz u are proud of it. i can understand this but u also have to see my fears i got.
its not a personally case, its just about the tag. i rly like u guys and it would be bad if u decide to play somewhere else. u are always welcome on our servers but imo without NC tag. anyway, guess we will talk with all HA about it and bring out a final decision.
so long
!cy
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death.
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
- siegemode12
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- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00
by siegemode12 » Sat Feb 16, 2008 21:44
Talking about netcoders.
I thought they had own server for cheats ?
and the other thing
PS has allmost pb in all servers.
Why not stand up for it
The cheats mostly on Netcoders site is public
PB could get those hacks blocked.I haven't never coded a hack
but i have used and its worse than playing fair
I thought they had own server for cheats ?
and the other thing
PS has allmost pb in all servers.
Why not stand up for it
The cheats mostly on Netcoders site is public
PB could get those hacks blocked.I haven't never coded a hack
but i have used and its worse than playing fair
by Ammz » Sat Feb 16, 2008 21:47
Mtdman wrote:I do understand your desire to not be associated with a cheat server-but be realistic- their never has been a massive community of et servers(6?) with many, many hundreds of players every day run by hackers. Such simply does not exist.
The truth is that there has been a cheating community that big. I can tell you about =45thid= as an example. I once were a 45thid member too.
Honestly Mtdman we do want you and your friends to play on our server, but it's a problem if other players start to ask questions about you and we have to explain. It isn't that much fun if you have to always explain that you don't cheat.
Maybe there is a possibility of extending your clan name? Adding an extra word to NoChain so it wouldn't just be the N & C? That wouldn't force you to "disown" your name and who you are.
You say: "Great Shot!"
I say: "aimbot"
-|PS|-Ammz
I say: "aimbot"
-|PS|-Ammz
- siegemode12
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- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:00
by siegemode12 » Sat Feb 16, 2008 21:56
There is more communities *snap* ... there are so much of them i better die in hell than go to heaven with them
by landser » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:32
i am sure somewhere out there a cheaterclan stole our sexy PS tag ...
explaing why to rename and !renaming all the people with a cheater tag will cause damn much work, more work than the bit of repurtation we might loose if we allow cheaters clan names on our server.
even if it attracts cheaters: !BAN ... we got enough space in our shrubbot.cfg and enough admins to ban them
btw, thx to rapids anti cheater tool we got less cheaters than cheaterclantags on our servers
explaing why to rename and !renaming all the people with a cheater tag will cause damn much work, more work than the bit of repurtation we might loose if we allow cheaters clan names on our server.
even if it attracts cheaters: !BAN ... we got enough space in our shrubbot.cfg and enough admins to ban them
btw, thx to rapids anti cheater tool we got less cheaters than cheaterclantags on our servers
- warren-the-ape
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- Posts: 6378
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 0:00
- Location: Netherlands
by warren-the-ape » Sun Feb 17, 2008 13:44
landser wrote:more work than the bit of repurtation we might loose if we allow cheaters clan names on our server.
I hope you mean; "if we allow clan tags which look a lot like the ones used by (known) cheaterclans"
For other people;
No need to sum up all *naab* clans/communities in the world, they dont deserve even the smallest attention..
Thank you
"When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend."
by icefrost » Mon Feb 18, 2008 19:34
after a talk with the high admins we decided to let u guys play with the NC tag, since it looks a bit different. sorry for the troube but i'm sure u also get my fears about. anyway, i hope u feel still welcome and have much fun. see you and your friends around.
grtz
!cy
grtz
!cy
"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death.
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
I am very disappointed with that attitude.
I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."
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